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November 23, 2004
What's Wrong With These People?
Hundreds of thousands of people around Ukraine seem determined not to acccept "Central Election Commission's announcement that Kremlin-backed Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych had narrowly won Sunday's runoff vote." Their excuse? Exit polls showing the presidential challenger Viktor Yushchenko leading and reports of significant fraud, intimidation and media bias in favour of the official victor.
Jeez, what's the big deal? Why can't they go shopping instead? Isn't there a game on tonight? What's with this 200,000 people camping out in the streets in sub-zero temperatures -- now in their third day?
Let me be clear that there is no doubt that the United States is also trying to illegitimately meddle in this election. I don't know enough to judge what kind of a politician Yushchenko will turn out to be. I don't know if he will be a disappointment to these people who are trying so hard to see him as their next president. That's certainly a possibility.
Here's what's important, though. The people of Ukraine are providing a striking example of what happens when people actually care about democracy, about their right to vote. This is what happens when there is a popular will to actually challenge possibly fraudulent election results.
Posted by zeynep at November 23, 2004 04:20 PM
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Comments
You have it exactly right.
They are fighting more for their democracy than they are for their leader. At least I hope that is the case, or they are about to be dissapointed.
Becoming a client state of the west comes with its own set of problems.
Posted by: Me at November 23, 2004 10:51 PM
It's an inspiring story. What keeps our streets (in the U.S.) from being filled with similar protests is a mystery.
Posted by: Todd at November 24, 2004 01:36 AM
Possibly the fact that Ukranian democracy is half a generation old, and people haven't had the chance to figure out that they're choosing between Two Guys Who Suck. Or maybe their democracy hasn't evolved to that point yet.
Posted by: saurabh at November 24, 2004 10:37 AM
What keeps our (USA) streets from being filled is less of a mystery when you consider that nearly all the mainstream (slave) media is blacking out the stolen election story and that much of the progressive, somewhat-more-free media seems to want to move off the subject. We are understandably distracted, of course, by the horrific war crimes being committed in our name in Fallujah and elsewhere, by the apparent murder of Arafat and by other heartbreaking events of this dark age--BUT could it not be that the Fallujah assault was timed with the same kind eye on the USA election, as the slave media insists it was for the balloting in Iraq? Think back to Nov. 2-3: Not only discrepant exit polls in ALL of the swing states, but also Kerry's popular vote total, mysteriously low early in the evening being brought closer and closer, though of course not close enough; and then clear evidence that exit polls themselves were manipulated, with small percentage increases in respondants accounting for mathematically impossible percentage shifts in poll results! And then, as soon as we caught our breaths, a new level of war (crime.) Yet the American people, lied to and terrorized by their own, illegitimate government, nonetheless voted by an undetermined majority to unseat it and then were betrayed by that government's would-be successors and the agencies charged with telling them the truth; this is why we are not in the streets; American voters overcame thousands of obstacles to make the right choice, and then it was stolen from them, along with any pretence of democracy; they do not deserve the bad rap they're getting; many of us are still active; many of us are in Ohio, or sending our money there for the recount pressed for by Greens and Libertarians, in hopes of restoring a semblance of electoral freedom. The USA election is a world catastrophe; and why, some Democrats ask me, are Kerry & Co. so silent about it? The question is easier to answer when it's properly phrased: Why doesn't one war-mongering, empire building wing of the USA ruling elite challenge of the right of the other war-mongering, empire-building wing to steal an election? Must I point out they have too much in common with each other and nothing at all with the people whose votes they both intend to get, by hook or by crook?
Posted by: Richard Sevrens at November 24, 2004 10:55 AM
@Richard: two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner!
Posted by: kat at November 24, 2004 04:19 PM
Your analysis hits the nail right on the head:
Going to the mall, watching a game on TV -- Americans certainly have more "important" things to do than protest the outcome of their presidential election. After Bush's "victory", the orgy of greed displayed at the stock market demonstrated once again that pocketbooks supersede politics. If Americans could have known in advance that a Bush win would lead to 8% and 10% jumps in the Dow and Nasdaq, respectively, I strongly suspect that a considerable number of swing voters and Kerry supporters who own stocks would have voted for Bush after all. The power of greed (and idiocy) is not to be underestimated.
Posted by: Christopher Anderegg at November 25, 2004 11:09 AM
People I don’t want to burst your bubble but those protests have absolutely nothing to do with democracy. Anybody that knows anything about events in eastern Europe during last one and a half decade will immediately recognise them as western orchestrated coup d’etat. Coups like that are all too common events. Following pretty much same method they were used to install pro western puppet governments for example in Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia and now apparently it is in process in Ukraine (in fact this is second attempt of coupe in Ukraine, one in 2001 was abortive). Only country that appears to be immune to such attacks is Belarus mostly thanks to the fact that Belarus prevented take-over of media by pro western agitators and banning the work of subversive organisations such as Soros’s Open Society.
Those coups come in four stages:
1. Take-over of media in targeted countries, mobilisation of appropriate quisling who will take over power and creation of NGOs controlled by western intelligence that act as provocateurs, agitators and if necessary as comon foot soldiers - SA stile
2. Western controlled media, parties and NGOs initiate massive propaganda demonising leader US/EU wants to remove and promotion of its own puppets
3. By the time elections it is expected that general public will be sufficiently brainwashed or intimidated to place pro-western quisling to power
4. If by some miracle elections fail to produce “democratic” result they are immediately declared fraud, combination of outside diplomatic blackmails and internal disorders and violence generated by NGOs and other pro western marionettes are used to pressure elected out of power. To make this easier massive briberies (money or promise of future political position) are conducted to prevent police, military or courts to intervene to establish public order.
In some cases stage 3 is skipped over.
One should also observe that same methods were used in abortive coups against Chaves.
I you want to know what really happened in Ukrainian elections read those
http://www.bhhrg.org/CountryReport.asp?CountryID=22
http://www.bhhrg.org/CountryReport.asp?CountryID=22&ReportID=226
http://www.bhhrg.org/LatestNews.asp?ArticleID=51
Posted by: DrazenE at November 25, 2004 06:08 PM
referring you to the same story, you fail to mention that Russia is is also trying to illegitimately meddle with the Ukranian elections. so why not point out both parties instead of just the US? or do you have a personal grievance with the US and it's citizens?
Posted by: chris at November 26, 2004 02:26 AM
BHHRG (www.bhhrg.org) is a totally pro-russian organisation. It's name BRITISH HELSINKI HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP is designedly chosen to mislead people, because during Soviet era there was such organisation Helsinki Group, which fought for human rights in Soviet occupied countries (especially the Baltic region). In fact BHHRG has at all no connections with real Helsinki Group. Russian special agencies know, how to conceal real purporses.
I'm from Lithuania and I know, how biassed BHHRG writes about my country (criticising gorvement, people, even writing total lie).
Don't trust information from BHHRG.
Posted by: Tomas at November 26, 2004 05:09 AM
Croatia? Slovakia? Romania? Bulgaria? I can barely see how even the most biased can see events there as a parallel of the others, whatever role the West has played in those others.
(BTW, that guy de-elected in Slovakia you probably refer to had his own election-manipulating black-ops, blowing up small bombs in Hungary before the 1998 elections - probably giving the victory to the opposition nationalists.)
Posted by: DoDo at November 26, 2004 12:31 PM
"BHHRG (www.bhhrg.org) is a totally pro-russian organisation. It's name BRITISH HELSINKI HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP is designedly chosen to mislead people, because during Soviet era there was such organisation Helsinki Group, which fought for human rights in Soviet occupied countries (especially the Baltic region). In fact BHHRG has at all no connections with real Helsinki Group. Russian special agencies know, how to conceal real purporses.
I'm from Lithuania and I know, how biassed BHHRG writes about my country (criticising gorvement, people, even writing total lie)."
I hope you have something more substantial then similarity of names to support that claim. There are no indications of any connection between BHHRG and Russian intelligence and only serious criticism of BHHRG I heard so far was that they underrepresented problems of gypsy minority in Czech Republic in one of their reports.
Also one should be wise enough to distinguish criticism of corrupted, neo-liberal, political elite in countries of east Europe, in which Lithuania is no exception, from criticism of nations themselves. I don’t know what factual errors BHHRG might have made in their reports regarding Lithuania but reports for my region of ex Yugoslavia were far superior and more accurate then anything I seen from any other news source, NGO or government organization, OSCE included.
Anyhow anybody doubting BHHRG reports can consult report by Guardian’s east European corespondent
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5072082-115040,00.html
Posted by: DrazenE at November 26, 2004 02:35 PM