Under The Same Sun: Somebody Tell Lt. Brandon Turner That He's Insane

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November 12, 2004

Somebody Tell Lt. Brandon Turner That He's Insane

This from the Los Angeles Times:

"We've got chunks of territory, but these guys (insurgents) are all over the place," Marine Lt. Brandon Turner said Thursday as he stood amid shattered glass and concrete under the green dome of Al Kalfa mosque, his fellow Marines resting on a plush red carpet.
"They just keep coming at us."

And here's the accompanying picture:

marines regroup inside a mosque.jpg

Somebody please tell Lt. Brandon Turner that he's insane, that the Pentagon is insane, whoever is allowing the marines or any American soldiers "rest" on that "plush red carpet" with their shoes, uniforms and machines guns is insane. Does anyone understand anything about religious feelings in general or about Islam in particular? Have they spent even half a day watching a documentary or two about Islam and noticed that people carefully and respectfully take their shoes off before entering a mosque, where they will kneel and put their head on that carpet? (Those "plush red carpets", by the way, are prayer rugs, or"sajjade." And you don't step on them with your combat boots, especially inside a mosque, and smile for the cameras unless you really want to fight to the death with up to a billion people.)

Seriously, this is either the most arrogant, incompetent, ignorant occupation, ever, or the most clever, insidious, skillful effort towards bringing about an apocalyptic world war. Are they asleep at the awheel, drowning under their own ignorance, or simply want to end life on earth as we know it?

Posted by zeynep at November 12, 2004 12:44 AM

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Comments

Just think of the alternative: Gay Marriage.

I'd much rather be offending 1/5 of the world's population ...

Posted by: Alex P Worrell at November 12, 2004 09:26 AM

Wonderfully provocative post; I've long believed such actions are not stupid but willful and deliberately challenging, schoolyard bullying type stuff elevated to a geopolitical, potentially world-destroying scale by elements of the USA elite who do not necessarily see world war as undesirable; they keep contriving, You may notice, to MAINTAIN the chaos in Iraq, under guise of seeking stability; the war itself and the low troop level are part of a design to expose mounting numbers of Arabs to death and debilitation (payback for 911?) and to shed American blood as a way to sanctify and continue wars for world domination. This began in Afghanistan when some USA troops were sent into mountainous regions with woefully inadequate fire cover and sustained many casualties, the first real battle deaths of the war on our side; a "mistake," said my ex-Army buddies. "A mistake on purpose," said I, but it was a hard sell. Keep up the good work.

Posted by: Richard Sevrens at November 12, 2004 11:09 AM

Hey you are doing a great job on this site, I am new here and very excited. A bit of issue with the theme of your recent post, you wrote:

"Seriously, this is either the most arrogant, incompetent, ignorant occupation, ever, or the most clever, insidious, skillful effort towards bringing about an apocalyptic world war"

The whole point of occupation is to brutally dominate the occupied nation. Can't have a successful occupation without raping, pillaging, insulting local cultures. (see Vietnam, Algeria, Palestine, etc.) I would be interested to know if someone could point out an occupation force that wasn't arrogant, incompetent, ignorant, et. al. If an occupation weren't brutal, the local resistance would strengthen tactically and kick the occupying nation out.

Which is a good reason to fight against imperialism and colonialist practices.

Posted by: adam at November 12, 2004 12:28 PM

Thank you again, Zeynep. I agree with Mr. Sevrens: the US military is deliberately thumbing its nose, in a schoolyard bully fashion, at silly Islamic ideas of the sacred. And there are a substantial number of "believing Christians" of apocalyptic bent in the US military, as in US society in general, who want to bring on armaggedon so they can play their role in the total headrush of prophecy fulfillment. Ineptness it is not. It's all deliberately deliberate. And what can close to a billion Islamic people do to sociopathic American nuts with enough weaponry to blow Moslem countries off the face of the earth many times over? Just little things here and there, of which the attacks of September 11, 2001, are examples, tellingly rare examples considering the amount of suffering the US has inflicted on others.

Posted by: Dean Garrett at November 12, 2004 12:30 PM

thank you for your insightful posts, and while you are at it, please keep on pointing out the idiocy of so-called 'liberal/progressive' bloggers as Kos and Atrioson on such subjects as Iraq and Palestine. Kos has an absolutely abominable post on Arafat today, it demands a response.

Posted by: jon at November 12, 2004 05:00 PM

I don't know which I feel worse about. the possibility pathetic and pathological ignorance on the part of people involved, or t the possibility that it is all deliberate.

Such a simple image, such a good point about cultural assumptions.

Posted by: trouble at November 12, 2004 05:03 PM

"Seriously, this is either the most arrogant, incompetent, ignorant occupation, ever, or the most clever, insidious, skillful effort towards bringing about an apocalyptic world war."

I'm entirely convinced that the latter is the agenda, by means of exploiting the first.

Posted by: LoneWolf at November 12, 2004 05:07 PM

Wow--that's fucking crazy.

Posted by: JRB at November 12, 2004 05:30 PM

hey, we carved up mt. rushmore to defile a native american high holy place for as long as the earth lasts. what's a little replaceable prayer rug?

Posted by: m at November 12, 2004 05:47 PM

It seems that the US commanders have been trying to indicate -- perhaps, not warily enough -- "We're not threatened by you!"

I suppose that they have not been, yet, ordered to: Be /considerate/.

(I mean, of course, not to make light of this, either, or myself-either)

Posted by: Sean Champ at November 12, 2004 08:56 PM

Great post. This reminds me of a similar tale about Crusaders raiding Mecca and having thier horses shit in the mosque.

Posted by: Daniel at November 13, 2004 06:44 AM

The mosque now is under the control of resistance.USA says they move out because of receiving heavy fire.

Posted by: johny at November 13, 2004 07:30 AM

Insanity????
Come on!!!!!
Moslems show disrespect to Christians every single day. Saudia Arabia, Philipines, UAE, Turkey, North Africa ect...
Hey perhaps you would like to go to Saudia Arabia and speak to the muslims about Jesus. You wont because they will throw you in prison for prostletizing and you just might get your head chopped off too.

That my friend is pure radicalism, hate, ignorance, suppression, foolishness, a perfect example of a group of people that will not tolerate anything but hate!!!! Thats why there has been NO REST in the middle east for over 2000 years !!! And it is not because of th e200 plus year old USA.

Your insane!!!

1. www.jewishsf.com/bk020426/i23.shtml
2. www.israelinsider.com/channels/security/art
3. www.jcpa.org/jl/vp490.htmicles/sec_0234.htm

Posted by: 19nsa84 at November 13, 2004 05:17 PM

Regarding "Somebody Tell Lt. Brandon Turner That He's Insane " - cultural insentivity, religious insensitivity, callousness, brutalization, studpidity, ingnorance, morally bankrupt?
Michael Zimmer
The Progressive Mind

Posted by: Michael Zimmer at November 13, 2004 05:19 PM

I do like this forum!!

Keep up the work. I enjoy eveyones ideas and passions.

Posted by: 19nsa84 at November 13, 2004 05:24 PM

Um, I fail to see what's so bad about this. You're upset their resting in one of the few buildings left mostly intact?

Posted by: John at November 13, 2004 05:28 PM

So, the marines are insane for sitting on the prayer rug of some superstitious fools who fight from their "sacred" mosques, store weapons in these oh so sacred places and preach the murder of innocents in these places of unlimited illumination. Oh, did I forget to mention the beheadings?

Get a life

Posted by: Christian at November 13, 2004 05:47 PM

Get a life

Posted by: Christian at November 13, 2004 05:50 PM

It's called war. Who gives a sh*t about their feelings.

Posted by: h-Town at November 13, 2004 06:40 PM

Mr. Champ

:Great post. This reminds me of a similar tale about Crusaders raiding Mecca and having thier horses shit in the mosque.:

You mean the Crusades that were in response to Islamic aggression? Is that what you are talking about?

Posted by: h-town at November 13, 2004 06:44 PM

LOL. I'm surprised that the building is still standing. This is war, not some Boy Scout hike. Perhaps you think that the Lt. should have sent a letter and asked for permission first. I think they should level the whole city anyway. It's easier to see and kill the enemy that way.

Posted by: AA at November 13, 2004 07:15 PM

Hard to preach democracy when there's no town left.

Posted by: JRB at November 13, 2004 07:32 PM

Who cares what a bunch of murderous ragheads think?

Their stated goal is to convert to Islam and Sharia law all infidels. If you don't submit, they plan to kill you. This is not a joke. It's reality. It's part of their culture RIGHT NOW. They believe that they will eventually dominate every nation. They don't just want to push Israel into the sea, they want it all. And we are supposed to let it happen?

Do you think that you can do something to halt the spread of Islam .. something nice and kind that will stop them because hey, you are so very kind and sweet and all?

Wake up, asshole!

Our only mistake was not bombing Falujah, all Iraq, Saudi Arabia and all the other vile raghead countries into rubble immediately. Stop pussyfooting around and get it over with.

Islam Delenda est!

Posted by: Leslie at November 13, 2004 09:55 PM

Looks like a bunch of racist douchebags have hijacked this thread.

Those soldiers (though I am sure they are very tired, abused, and war-wary) may as well be wiping their ass with the Koran in that picture. I'm sure a few new insurgents will be created by this photo alone. The US has no fucking clue how to go about occupying a country; US commanders should be forced to sit down with their British counterparts and just listen. The British know how it is done.

Posted by: Machete at November 13, 2004 10:48 PM

Did you know what those holy Moslem praying men were doing in those mosques?

They were cacheing weapons and ammo. Big Guns. Mortars. Worse.

I for one wish that those holy praying men took their own religion more seriously. I wish they respected their "holy places" enough to not pollute them with weapons.

I'm so glad that the US found the cache before it was used.

Posted by: Leslie at November 13, 2004 11:13 PM

I forgot to tell you that I love that picture of little turd world cuties at the top of your blog!

Itth tho cute!

: )

I just hope they stay in the turd world where they belong!
Black admixture has lowered the US average IQ enough already.

Posted by: Leslie at November 13, 2004 11:18 PM

Hmm... So after capturing this building after facing resistance, the Marines take a break. I fail to see the problem. If the Marines hadn't been taking fire from that building, there would have been no need to try to capture it. In essence, if they want to claim that their mosque got defiled, maybe they shouldn't have tried to use it as a fort.

Posted by: Ory'hara at November 14, 2004 12:39 AM

The mosques captured by US occupation forces are physically occupied by Kurdish Peshmergas whom US military propaganda calls "Iraqi National Forces." The Kurds in this picture were shortly afterwards redeployed to Mosul, where the resistance has taken control and forced the evacuation of a US airbase.

Western observers with misplaced sympathy for so-called Kurdish nationalism (tribalism is more like it) should carefully follow the bloodstained boot prints of these Fritz-helmeted Kurdish mercenaries. The crimes of the Kurdish warlords against the Iraqi people will not go unpunished. The Western liberal cheerleaders of Barzani and Talabani had better start looking for a hole to hide in.

Posted by: agitpapa at November 14, 2004 02:37 AM

The poster wasn't saying this was wrong (though I'm sure he thinks it is) but that it was stupid. We want to revolutionize the middle east, but we shit on its culture whenever we have the chance. It would be wiser and ultimately easier for us to gain allies in part by showing some respect. (If you want to make an American see the wisdom in something, you have to tell him what's in it for him.)

But I do agree that if an insurgent fights from his mosque, he should expect to be shot at in return. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't avoid adding insult to injury.

Posted by: Jim at November 15, 2004 10:41 AM

Offending Muslims everywhere? Purposely insulting other cultures and beliefs? It's all part of the plan, I'm sure -- and it's an ongoing pattern in American history. Remember, we converted all the Native Amurkins to Christianity® (all except those we killed) to save them from themselves, right?

Posted by: jeff at November 15, 2004 12:34 PM

You think offending Islam is going to bring an end to the world? Where you afraid of Japan in World War 2? Where you afraid of Hitler? You afraid of your own shadow? I say we do like the old days and dip them to there chin in pigs blood and let some go to tell all the others. You afraid of these words? We the American People have not yet began to fight. We the American People are mostly divided about it. Keep up the bold statements and the stupid attackes and we will unit and then bring the attackers world to an end. If some group (Islam) would stand up and actualy state they are going to fight us. We announce what we are going to do (attack) in National news. You think we have something to be scared of? That hole town should be emptied of all relegion structures. What you fail to understand is these people would take you and use you as shield and fight on that red rug while you shit and piss on your self from being in the middle. They are the ones who disshonor their own religion much like the KKK disshonor the Christan religion. The true Islam will forgive and worship later. The one with Disshonor will hate and fight or start the fithg. We the American People will just clean up if you get in our way. Religion is in the hart not some temple. Your stupid to put so much honor into a structure. It was built by man.. WAKE UP!

Posted by: james at November 15, 2004 01:28 PM

Let's think this through. A group of Marines who have been fighting block by block through the city. They need a relatively safe and quiet place to rest and catch their breath. The mosque is probably the least damaged structure around, because they did their best to respect its sanctity by not obliterating it. It's the logical place to rest. This is not out of disrespect to the Iraqi or Muslim culture, it is simply a raggedy-assed, tired bunch of grunts making use of the best available sanctuary before they head back out into the killing zone. Any more questions?

Posted by: Lt B at November 15, 2004 06:11 PM

"Your stupid to put so much honor into a structure. It was built by man.. WAKE UP!"

Just like the WTC: "built by man" - nothing to bother about, just another failed yankee capitalist temple. They will get over it.

Posted by: Jim at November 16, 2004 11:41 AM

Worry about the beheadings, suicide bombers, and insurgent snipers more than the "sacred rug" that had weapons sitting on it prior to our troops. See those ragged Marines- THEY are the reason you have the freedom to write your taudry bullshit!

As stated in many above posts- get a life asshole.

PS- Carnival Cruise Line is offering "get out of America" deals for you, Sean Penn, Barbara Streisand, etc

Posted by: Chief P at November 16, 2004 01:08 PM

THIS IS NEVER GOING TO END.
Thanks,GEORGE.

Posted by: VELOCEDOG at November 19, 2004 12:31 AM

This is something that needs to change for operational security reasons. If we want the Iraqis to understand that democracy is the best way to go about things, we have to show them democracy's best. However, I don't blame the troops. Their commanders and the DoD should have been much more up on all of these things. It would have saved lives.

Posted by: Rob W at November 29, 2004 09:18 AM

While I can entirely understand the battfield necessity of resting in the mosque, I think that what is indicated about the larger reality of how we interact with other cultures is the real point.

Our ostensible obliviousness to and/or lack of concern about things that only others are concerned about is not new, and much of the world doesn't see it as out of our character.

The shortsighted person sees other people's problems as only other people's problems.

The person with a bit more foresight understands that introducing problems into the equation of human interaction has cascading and unpredictable negative results.

This, in my opinion, is why we see recurring themes in various religions that deal with this issue.

For instance, Karma, and the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," mantra as well as other religious tidbits seek to encourage respect of this phenomenon.

But it's not about religion; it's about pragmatism - doing what works.

We are failing to be pragmatic.

We are failing to do what works.

This is the fundamental problem.

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Under The Same Sun

reflections on a world where the sun never sets

November 12, 2004

Somebody Tell Lt. Brandon Turner That He's Insane

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